Anti-racist social work steering group transcript

With Ahmina Akhtar, Farrah Khan, Sharon Davidson and Sarah Blackmore

Ahmina

Hi everybody, it's great to be joined by you. So shall we just start with a round of introductions and before we get started so I'll start with myself.
I'm Ahmina Akhtar. I'm a registered social worker and I'm also the Head of Equality, Diversity and Inclusion at Social Work England. I'll come to you next Farrah.

Farrah

Hi everyone, I'm Farrah Khan. I'm also a registered social worker, worked in children and family social work all my life and currently I'm co-chairing the Principal Children and Family Social Work Network with Sharon Davidson.

Ahmina

Should we go to you next then Sharon?

Sharon

Hi everyone, I'm Sharon Davidson I am also a registered social worker, that's good isn't it, and co-chair the Children and Families Principal Social Worker Network and I'm a principal social worker for Surrey County council.

Ahmina

And then Sarah.

Sarah

Hi, I'm Sarah Blackmore, I'm also a registered social worker which makes it a hat trick and I'm exec director of strategy policy and engagement at Social Work England, which is the regulator for social workers in England.

Ahmina

So we've all come together today to talk about the work of the anti-racism steering group so I'm just gonna ask you what is the steering group all about and what is the work that it's been doing. So if we start with you Farrah?

Farrah

Yeah, I think, you know to call it a steering group I suppose what we need to be clear, it started off with conversation, so it evolved into a steering group. It started off with conversations and I think over the past 18 months, particularly since the murder of George Floyd, there was more discussions and conversations about the impact of racism and the extent of racism but for social work. You know social work values and anti-discriminatory practice, that's always at the forefront of social work discussions.

So the reason we started the conversations around anti-racist practice is really real, it was reflective of what social workers were telling us through the principal social work network and colleagues were telling us that it was really at the forefront for everybody. And in the pandemic, some of those conversations, some of those feelings, some of those. You know those kind of experiences were quite difficult to manage, and that's where that's where the steering group started.

Ahmina

Thanks Farrah. Sarah, do you want to tell us a little more about who's in the steering group?

Sarah

So this is a real partnership, a collaboration across the principal social worker network for both children families and adults and all of the principal social workers within it, the What Works Centre and Social Work England, and as time goes on, we do hope to broaden out the conversations further. And we can really see, you know, different workstreams opening up and being able to include some of our many stakeholders and partners across the country.

But it's something that has been enormously valuable I think to all of us so far and I think we're all really excited about seeing how it will develop.

Ahmina

What are your thoughts on the steering group Sharon?

Sharon

Well I mean, I echo both and what Sharon and Sarah said but I suppose it I'd like to add that it really was a passion from us as a network to actually, kind of, reconnect with social work values and the death of George Floyd really just opened up a dialogue that we couldn't ignore the fact that within social work there were still concerns around the experiences that staff were telling us about and reconnecting with our values to actually say "how do we want to think about this and what do we want in terms of tangible action", that we didn't want to just do statements.

We all, you know, the statements were a significant point, and they were important, but it was how do we take that forward? And so as a network we had a series of conversations, and a real drive came from that and Social Work England kind of saying "actually let's think about this together".

So that was the kind of embryonic stages of the steering group, and we've also had support from the Department of Health and Social Care and Department for Education in kind of just starting to think about how we take this forward so that it's a sector-wide response as well.

Ahmina

Great, thank you and why is it important that social workers complete this survey? So I'll start with you Farrah.

Farrah

So I think we've got to understand that people are asked to do lots and lots of surveys and sometimes it's easy to think "why should I do this again?" and have survey fatigue almost but this survey is very unique in the sense of the scope and the breadth of who can complete it.

So it's for every registered social worker and so everybody registered with Social Work England, so it doesn't matter where you're practicing. You could be an independent social worker, you could be in different settings, so not the traditional surveys that target social workers and local authorities.

Because we want to get an understanding of the needs of the sector moving forward and how we influence that and social workers as a profession. And understanding that from linking it back to social work values rather than the area you work in is really important.

And it's for everybody, it's not just for people from a black minority ethnic background, it's to understand everybody's needs, so we can really tackle racism which sits with the values of social work and tackling discrimination. So that's why its uniqueness makes it important to complete. The more people that do it the more rich picture we'll get.

Ahmina

Thanks Farrah. Sharon, anything to add to that?

Sharon

The other thing I would add is that it doesn't take very long. So we've kind of crafted it in a way that will answer, give us some that picture that Farrah's describing but kind of recognising that time's precious for lots of people, so we don't want people to be fatigued in going through that process of answering it.

The other thing I suppose is that, you know, we're not immune to the fact that there will be colleagues up and down the country that have experienced or witnessed incidents of racism and we want to understand that. But we want to understand in a way that doesn't identify an individual, but it gives us a sense of, you know, across the country what does that picture look like and how do we then use that information to do what I was saying before about the actions.

We're really keen that this is the start of a process. It's not the whole you know, it doesn't end once the survey results come out, that that helps inform what the action that needs to take place following on and how colleagues across all areas can support that.

And I think the other, the point to raise is, Farrah said is that we're inviting social workers from adults and children back then as well as colleagues from different ethnicities and we want to understand people who've had the experience of racism, as well as people who've witnessed it. So that also quite unique I think in this piece of work.

Ahmina

That's great, thank you Sharon. And why is this data so important to have Sarah?

Sarah

Yeah, thanks Ahmina, and I just want to kind of echo what Farrah and Sharon have said. You know, this is a really important opportunity to build a really rich detailed picture of what social workers experiences have been and I do know how busy social workers are, but I've done the survey and Sharon's right - it really doesn't take very long to do.

I think one of the issues that we have really been struck by as a new organisation and a new regulator setting up is just the lack of data about social work as a profession across the country and really starkly the lack of details about who social workers are, where they are and the experiences that they have.

So one of the tasks, the key tasks for us is to begin to build that picture now we know anecdotally that that social workers are experiencing differences and disproportionality in how they're treated depending on their background.

And we know, for example anecdotally that social workers from black and minority ethnic backgrounds will find themselves less likely to have opportunities for promotion, less likely to have opportunities for learning and development, and will find themselves more frequently in disciplinary processes within their employers and more often referred to fitness to practise.

We know this anecdotally but it's really important that we can build an evidence-based picture of what's happening in social work across the profession in England and that's why a survey like this is so important.

So we really do encourage you, please, please just take a few minutes of your time and fill it out and it will be enormously helpful to the profession as a whole, and how we're able to shine a light on what's really happening across the country every day.

Ahmina

That's great, thanks Sarah. So before we close, I'm just going to ask everybody for some final reflections. So I'll just, I'll start with you again Farrah, any final thoughts?

Farrah

Yeah I just, you know, I mean this is important to us on a personal level as well you know, we will all have experiences of either holding biases or also discrimination and you know as a woman, as a batam woman and I want to share I'm also quite severely dyslexic you know, and those kind of, juggling that and managing that and being one of a few women in leadership who is of colour and you know, has its own challenges so we really want to be real about this, we understand that racism is there and people experience it.

This is just about the opportunity to capture and get rich data services so that we can inform the next steps with people, and there'll be opportunities in the survey, I've completed as well, there's an opportunity to get involved in focus groups and further share their views and so this is just the starting point.

Ahmina

Lovely, thank you Farrah. Sharon - final reflections?

Sharon

I've also completed it so it really is, I could do it you know, I could have a coffee and finish the survey before I finish my coffee, so it's that quick.
I think my reflection is that this is the first time that I am aware in my career where we're asking people to talk about their experience of racism and to think about that in in a very holistic way.

And I think that, you know, it will challenge us as a sector, to really understand how we then address those issues but i think it's really important that that we lead the way as a profession in terms of understanding and doing something about the information that comes forward. And it may not be things that people will be surprised by but it's to be able to quantify that that I think is going to be really important.

So really, really encourage people to take that little time out of their day to complete the survey to support the profession as a whole and hopefully that then results in better outcomes for all of us as social workers going forward.

Ahmina

Lovely, thanks Sharon, and finally Sarah, any final thoughts from you?

Sarah

Thank you. I mean I suppose from my perspective I'm very mindful of the fact that, you know we've all been here before, we've all had the beginnings of these conversations before and all too often when media attention or you know, the headlines die away then the conversation drops off.

And the great thing for me about this process is it really feels like that's not going to happen this time, and that a partnership like the one that we've established, that has created this survey, which just will not allow that to happen.

And that we are really passionate about and committed to ensuring that there is some real sustained and meaningful change, so that social workers all have access to the same opportunities, they all have the same experiences and where there are issues, that we can address those quickly and effectively so that social work is the profession that we all want it to be and know that it can be.

Ahmina

Wonderful, thank you. Well thank you for your time today, it's been great to talk about this survey. Please everybody, do complete it. It's really vital that we get all of this information and are able to make some steps towards tackling racism. Thanks everyone.